Variation in pronunciation of "й" in word-ending "ый"

Question

I have heard two different ways of pronouncing the very common word-ending ый (as in, e.g., чёрный or кра́сный).

The first variant has a barely audible [j] sound after [ɨ].
The second variant has a clearly audible "sh" sound after [ɨ], quite similar to German "ch" [ç] (but certainly different to the English "sh" and also different to a ж, ш or щ sound).

This question came up because I frequently hear the [ç] ending in a "Basic Russian course" on Memrise.
Here's a video picked on Youtube where you can hear both pronunciation. She pronounces, for example, кра́сный with that [ç] ending. Most of the colors, however, are neatly pronounced, i.e. with that subtle [j] ending only.
And here's another video with a mixture of both pronunciations.

I assume that the first variant is the 'standard' pronunciation (if that exists?!) and the second one is kind of sloppy pronunciation; but probably the most common.

• Is that true?
• Which pronunciation should a language learner pick up?
• And would that also be applied to the ending ий (e.g. англи́йский)?¹

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This question is not about the standard pronunciation and difference between и, ий, ы and ый. I am aware of the other question linked in comments and there are a lot of questions about this on the Internet. However, none of these questions does address what I'm asking here.

¹ I haven't heard the second variant for ий (yet), but I guess the assumption is not too far-fetched.

Answer 1

Em1, I've looked at the Youtube video and if I understand your question correctly – yes, she pronounces the name of the colors twice and each time the ending sounds differently.

It's an effect of emphasizing and not emphasizing accent "крАААсный" и "красный".

I am a native speaker and I don't really notice "sh" there or much difference, but I think it's totally normal for you to hear it, as for a foreign ear these two endings are different.

There is no right, wrong or standard way to pronounce it, not any rule; one is just pronounced with aspiration and it depends on articulation of this concrete person and way she talks. If you listen carefully to the words, you will notice that in general she produces a lot of "hiss", a kind of defect of articulation and pronunciation.

My only advice – try to listen the course where a lector has perfect diction (sorry I don't know right word in English for training to articulate words) and pronounce it as best as you can (anyway it will not sound immediately the same as native speakers do).

Answer 2

Both suffixes are always pronounced as they are written, that is -ый as [ɨj] and -ий as [ij]. No kind of sh/ch is there. In some dialects the final [j] can be barely heard or disappear altogether, but that's rare.

The only explanation for your issue I can think of is that [ç] (the German 'ch' in 'ich') is the voiceless counterpart of the voiced [j]. You know, when speaking in whisper, all the consonants are pronounced voiceless, so one cannot pronounce [j] in whisper, one will inevitably say [ç]. The same happens in those adjectives ending in -ый [ɨj], at the end of a word [j] gets partially devoiced and acquires some [ç] coloring. But that happens because in your first video the girl is speaking very slowly, in normal speech that does not happen.

Answer 3

The sound [ç] is actually not sh, but a voiceless pair to [j]. Consonants tend to become voiceless in the end of Russian words. However, for [j] it is not correct, although it can sometimes happen.

Answer 4

If i understand you properly, the sound you interpreted as a [ç] is just an air relieved after we stop pronouncing final [j]. Just a side effect.

Answer 5

As you can see on the first video you posted, there is no transcriptions ending with anything similar to the sh. As a native speaker I do know - there is no sh endings for adjectives in Russian.
Unfortunately, you just misheard.

Answer 6

They are pronounced exactly the same way, both with the [j] sound on the end.

Answer 7

I've sometimes noticed, when listening to recordings of myself speaking, that I occasionally pronounce it as [ç], and particularly in those cases when I'm paying extra attention to my articulation. That doesn't mean that there's a "correct" form and a "sloppy" one. As the answers above have shown, native Russian speakers tend not to even be aware of the difference, and some don't quite understand what "German ch" you're talking about (I did immediately, but that's because I'm very fond of these small phonetical observations), so we might call it free variation. I'd say go with the [j].