What's the meaning of "у нас" in phrases like "он у нас умный"?

Question

The grammatical construction у меня, literally at/near me, is the Russian way to express possession and is also used to express proximity:

У меня хорошая подруга. (I have a good friend.)

Она сейчас у меня. (She is now at my place.)

But I occasionally encounter sentences in which this construction apparently means something different, and I'm at a loss as to what is that meaning. Such sentences look absolutely normal except for the presence of that construction, which appears to be inserted there for no reason at all. Here are some sentences I just found on the Internet to illustrate what I'm talking about:

(1) Он у нас умный слишком. Он у нас рабочий класс презирает. Смеется над ним. (Source)

(2) А вот самый-то интересный вопрос – что было бы, если бы Гитлер у нас пошел по этому штрассеровскому пути и все-таки Германия прошла бы гражданскую войну. (Source)

(3) Конец 40-х годов, Сталин у нас пишет великую статью про язык. (Source)

(4) - Если народ не понимает, зачем нужен переход, значит, надо объяснить народу, он у нас умный и понятливый! - заявил Толстых. (Source)

(5) Внук Любови Рогожниковой, Дима, показывая на бабушку, с нотками восхищения в голосе говорит: "Она у меня хорошо катается! А я - пока еще нет". (Source)

(6) Поверь, он у нас пожалеет о том, что родился. (Source)

The formula is: subject + у меня + verb or zero copula. You can easily find many similar sentences on the Internet by substituting various subjects, pronouns, and verbs into that formula and searching the resulting phrases in Google.

How can I interpret this construction in such sentences? I'm at a loss as to how I can accurately translate such sentences into English to meet the standards of my teacher.

Answer 1

There are a few different meanings in your examples. Let's try and unpick them. У меня, у нас can be used to express:

1. Possession: у меня = мой, у нас = наш:

   • У меня рука болит = Моя рука болит.
   • У нас народ умный = Наш народ умный (your example #4)

2. A patronizing / possessive way of referring to people, often your kids / spouses, etc.

   • Он у меня ещё маленький = He (my kid) is still very small.

   • Таня у нас (=наша Таня) очень одарённая! - Our Tanya is very talented. (Something a proud teacher might say.)

   • In your example #5 little Dima is copying his granny's way of calling him "ты у меня" and suddenly turns the tables by saying "Она у меня хорошо катается" - "She's a really good skater, this granny of mine". Now he's patronizing her!
   • (It is very common, especially among mothers, to call their children and husbands simply "мой": "Мой вчера на рогах заявился." | "Мой двойку из школы притащил." | "А мой-то у меня что вытворил!" - note the double possessive!)

3. (By extension of the previous meaning) Dimunition of a person: "I'm your boss", "I own you" kind of talk:

   • Так, а ты у нас кто? - Now, who do we have here? / Who the heck are you?
   • (1) Он у нас умный слишком. - He, this guy of ours, is too smart.
   • (6) Поверь, он у нас пожалеет о том, что родился. - Trust me, we'll have him to regret he was even born.

The line between (2) and (3) above can be blurry. If your name is followed by у меня / у нас, you could be anything from being lovingly patronized to threatened murder.

Now there is a totally different "у нас" which is used parenthetically in a narrative to say "As we have it", "as our story goes", "let's suppose", etc:

• (3) Конец 40-х годов, Сталин у нас пишет великую статью про язык. This could also be interpreted as у нас = in our country, but I think in this case it's just a parenthetic "у нас": "It's the end of the forties; Stalin, as we know, writes a monumental article about language."
• (2) А вот самый-то интересный вопрос – что было бы, если бы Гитлер у нас пошел по этому штрассеровскому пути и все-таки Германия прошла бы гражданскую войну. - ... what would happen if we had Hitler go Strasser's way...

It is used to pull the listener's attention, make them part of the story.

Answer 2

Examples from question:

(1) Он у нас умный слишком. Он у нас рабочий класс презирает. Смеется над ним.

(2) А вот самый-то интересный вопрос – что было бы, если бы Гитлер у нас пошел по этому штрассеровскому пути и все-таки Германия прошла бы гражданскую войну.

(3) Конец 40-х годов, Сталин у нас пишет великую статью про язык.

(4) - Если народ не понимает, зачем нужен переход, значит, надо объяснить народу, он у нас умный и понятливый! - заявил Толстых.

(5) Внук Любови Рогожниковой, Дима, показывая на бабушку, с нотками восхищения в голосе говорит: "Она у меня хорошо катается! А я - пока еще нет".

(6) Поверь, он у нас пожалеет о том, что родился.

Other meanings of "у нас" except yours (possession or proximity) are:

1) Speaker underlines, that subject stands out something strongly among us, he is different from us. (Examples 1, 4, 5, 6). Speaker expresses some emotions: pride (admiration) - 5, praise (flattery) - 4, sarcasm - 1, discontent - 6.

Example 3 may have different meanings. But it is clear from context, that speaker expresses negative emotions about Stalin.

2) Meaning of sentence expresses abstract reflections, assumptions.

Sentence 2 belongs to this case, it is clear from context. (The article examines three scenarios.)

"если бы Гитлер у нас пошел бы по этому штрассеровскому пути..." = "если бы Гитлер в наших размышлениях пошел бы по этому штрассеровскому пути...".

Other examples of such sentences are:

"Допустим, он у нас пошёл в магазин" = "Допустим, он пойдет в магазин" ("Предположим в наших размышлениях, что он пойдет в магазин")

or "x у нас равен 5" = "x в наших рассуждениях равен 5".

Unfortunatly, i can't translate these sentences (accurately) into English according to Your high level of knowledge of language.

UPDATE: Let's look context. ex.1: "распалял себя парень", "заорал парень" = big emotions; ex.4: exclamatory sentence and "заявил" = exclamation. Note: first meaning (=наш) (just possession without emotion) also possible for this example. ex.5: exclamatory sentence and "с нотками восхищения" = emotion; (and also as Sergey Slepov has noticed it is may be example of speech with baby. "Кто это к нам пришёл?)", "Кто это у нас такой красивый?)" = emotion of pride or praise. May be it is third of others meanings of "у нас"). ex.6: question and exclamation sentences before example and "отчего так убиваться-то?" = emotion.

Example 3 may have different meanings: your second meaning (just proximity) or abstract reflections (= "in our reflection") or emotion: pride or discontent. Context of ex.3 are "вместо того, чтобы заниматься экономикой, повышать благосостояние людей, начинает заниматься орфографией, придираться к каким-то словам", "это признак кризиса власти". I prefer think that speaker expresses discontent.

Context of ex.2 are "а был ли третий путь?", "если брать эти три варианта..." = reflections, assumptions.

Answer 3

When you are in a company of three or more persons, then one can say about some person "he is like that" - that is the meaning of "он у нас... (умный, смелый, богатый и т. д.)". Actually this does mean "он такой" - "he is like that". Adding "у нас" you don't actually add new important information, but just an emotional "color". Then it can mean "he is like that in our company (within us)". When you say it normally, then this is just a normal sentence or even a praise. But you can also laugh at the person. You can add "он у нас такой" then it adds some (a little bit) depreciation, abasement of the discussed side or feature of a person. That means that you a little laugh at a person. It happens, for example, when a person doesn't actually have the discussed side or feature or the level of this side or feature is negligible, but the person pretends or think he has this feature at a high level.

Example. Person actually a bad musician - novice or something. But he pretends to looks like a pro. Then you can say "oh, you are such a musician (in our company)!" - "ты (у нас) такой музыкант!". You can add "же" to enforce the abasement - "ты же у нас такой музыкант!".

Here "in our company" or "у нас" does mean that the fact, that the person has his side or feature at a negligible level is obvious for all other people outside of your company. But inside you pretend that his level is high, but in the same time you openly laugh at him. Depending on the situation and company it can be a friendly joke or serious insult.

So, the basic meaning is:

"он умный" - "he is clever"

Adding some words you can "add colors" to you sentence:

• "он у нас умный" - "he is clever (smart) within us (in our company)"
• "он у нас самый умный" - "he is cleverest within us (in our company)"
• "он же у нас умный" - "he is clever within us (in our company) after all"
• "он же у нас самый умный" - "he is cleverest within us (in our company) after all".

Actually the meaning of such a phrase (praise, laugh) depends on the intonation and situation. I have explained mostly the "laugh" case.

Also don't confuse it with possession:

• "у нас (есть) яблоки" - "we have apples"
• "он у нас умный" - "he is clever", "our company has such a clever man"

The second case is not actually posession (of apples or something), but describing a person.